From: Joe Jared Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email Subject: Some idle thoughts... Hipster was almost missed today... Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 19:55:21 -0700 Organization: OsiruSoft Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3C23E809.E6A69AA8@osirusoft.com> Reply-To: joejared@relays.osirusoft.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.103.84.162 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ns.osirusoft.com 1008989891 18095 168.103.84.162 (22 Dec 2001 02:58:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@news.osirusoft.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Dec 2001 02:58:11 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Today I spent about an hour on the phone with SBC's policy manager, and in the discussion the topic of nanae was brought up. As a summary, I believe the actions of SPEWS are reasonable and accurate, with precision, and that the others (Spamhaus, spamsites) seem to operate with a great deal of precision and accuracy as well. Unfortunately, it seems like everyone who enters this group becomes targetted because of a SPEWS listing, instead of handling the issues objectively. The end result is a mob of individuals playing dogpile on the wabbit, instead of waiting to see the kind of individual said wabbit is. In some cases, the other side may deserve it, but it's just as easy to state facts and not get caught in it. Although I'm fairly confident that some will continue to pound on the listees upon entry in a similar fashion to kicking a computer when someone says to reboot it, but I wonder if anyone's really seeing the overall effect this is having. Pounding on spammers, or the ISPs that host them does nothing to solve the problem, but occasionally does um, allow one to vent a few frustrations. I also see how it could encourage the listers to be more arrogant, myself included, and for poor judgement calls to be made. I've fallen into that trap, and I believe one other nearly did, and in the end, each mistake made affects the list as a whole in terms of credibility. Telling people to go to a different ISP is not a viable answer in most cases, whereas telling them to talk to their ISP about how the problem affects them might be, as one such example. Anyway, I'm done idling... -- rtfm http://relays.osirusoft.com http://www.osirusoft.com